KC: Hello and a warm welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe relationship matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman, and in this bonus episode, I’m talking with certified coaching supervisor Katy Stone about her journey to becoming a coach supervisor. In this delightful conversation, we explore the differences between being a coach and being a supervisor, ways to use the body as a resource for guiding our supervisory approach and how to unlock the power of the inner supervisor within ourselves. Here’s a little bit more about Katy Stone. Katy is a systems-inspired coach, facilitator and certified coaching supervisor. She partners with clients seeking greater alignment emotional fluency and systemic awareness. Her approach invites clients to engage the emotional, somatic and energetic intelligence within their systems in service of authentic and life giving action. Katy’s work is guided by values of curiosity, compassion, embodiment and courageous dialogue. She believes that transformation emerges when systems slow down enough to listen deeply to themselves and act from what is most alive and true. Her invitation is for individuals and collectives to align with purpose, presence and possibility. So without further ado, I bring you the magic Katy Stone. Enjoy Katy! Excellent name. Welcome to the Relationship Matters podcast. I’m so happy to have you on the show today.

KS: 1:58
Thank you so much. I am so happy to be with you,

KC: 2:01
and today we’re talking about the journey to becoming a systems-inspired supervisor, a journey that we were on together. Yes, and yeah, I’m curious where you’re at in that journey right now.

KS: 2:17
I mean, where am I at in that journey? It’s well, definitely it’s still ongoing. And I think it’s one of those, I’ve heard people say this about other things in life, but I think for supervision, it’s also true. The more I learn about being a supervisor, the more I know I have to learn about embodying this role, because it’s really and that’s beautiful to me. You know, it’s really something that there, as Marita likes to say, there is no “there” there, right? You know, it’s just becoming more and more something. I think that’s how we landed on this sort of topic and theme, anyways. Is this idea that it’s about what it means to step into the role of being a supervisor, both with coaches and maybe everywhere in our lives, and what that looks like, and how you embody that role more and more over time.

KC: 3:15
I love that, and you really speak to the idea that being a supervisor, it’s more of a process that we offer, as opposed to a product. And I think that’s true for coaching, too, however, even more so for supervision, and in becoming supervisors, we’re, of course, a part of that ongoing process.

KS: 3:35
Absolutely, yes, I feel like we’re, you know, that expression developing your inner supervisor is is a big part of that, because it really is less about oh, I’m going to use this tool or this specific intervention, and it’s so much more about using ourselves As the instrument, ourselves as the catalyst for someone else’s reflection, learning and development, if you will,

KC: 4:08
which feels to be quite a vulnerable and also freeing place.

KS: 4:13
Yes, vulnerable and freeing Yes. And those two sort of are maybe two sides of the same coin, a little bit of the heart in the throat kind of feeling, if you will. Sometimes around I’m just going in completely blind, you know, or as my pod in the Supervision Certification cohort, we called ourselves Freefall, because it felt a little like I’m jumping out of an airplane with you, and we’ll just see where we land. It is very vulnerable. That’s a good word.

KC: 4:52
So I wonder if we can rewind to the start of your supervision training journey. What led you to take on that role? You’ve already been coaching for many years, you’ve got a successful practice. So what led you to developing in that way?

KS: 5:12
You know, now that I understand more about supervision, my process to say yes makes complete sense, because it very much feels like what it is to be a supervisor. But truly, when I saw the the information about the program, there was just this very intuitive feeling of yes, this is the next evolution for you around embodying this work. I have this sense that if I could hold space for other coaches that it would just grow me and my capacity as a coach, and as a human. There wasn’t a lot of logic to it. My best decisions come when I don’t bring all the logic and making the pros and cons list, but I just trust the clarity that this is something that feels like the next right step for me in my journey.

KC: 6:19
I love how intuitive that was. For me, we were on the same course, and signing up initially was quite heady. I thought— oh, I can get this certification. My sense of supervision was that it was coaching coaches. I really thought it was another level of coaching, but with a piece of paper behind it showing that you’re “this” level of coach. I know we’ve both been deepened in many ways through this journey. I wonder how you’ve come to understand the distinction of supervision from coaching.

KS: 6:59
Yeah, I love that question. I feel like our our cohort struggled for a long time to get clear. To some degree, my sense is that if you ask different coaching supervisors, they might have slightly different answers around that. It is not that there isn’t one distinction, but I think largely what feels different for me is that in coaching, there really is somewhere that a client is trying to go in terms of a challenge, a struggle. They’re bringing to coaching a goal they have for improvement, either self-development, improvement or with external markers of improvement. Supervision feels like more of a playground space, where coaches get to come and renew themselves and restore themselves and get support for what they bring to their coaching every day. There might be definitely an element of self-reflection and self-development, that vertical development piece around their coaching skills and abilities, but it’s done in the context of—there isn’t the same kind of agenda and markers that will finally give you that promotion you’ve been working towards. It’s much more about coming into yourself, and who do you want to be as a coach and how that overflows into the rest of your life. Supervision gives you a space to safely explore that.

KC: 9:04
It’s more organic, I think in that way. I love that playground analogy. That’s brilliant because it is the difference between going to a certain club and having free play. I will still in certain points in my life work with a coach, and coaching is goal orientated, whereas my sense of supervision is much more thematic. It’s one of the themes. We’re stepping back even further, seeing those bigger themes of who we are as a as a coach, a supervisor and a human being, and that is fascinating. And it’s also hard sometimes to look in that mirror!

KS: 9:46
Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting, now that I’ve said that thing about the playground, I love metaphors, and now I’m like, oh, getting into that or and it’s true what you said that. You know, when you get to the playground, there’s an invitation to just look around and what draws you today. You know what? What is the thing you want you feel yourself wanting to go towards now? There’s room in supervision to let the supervisee really direct this around their curiosity. As a supervisor, we’re really coming in from that side by side, shoulder to shoulder, collegial place of “Great, you want to go look at the sand over here in the sandbox. Let’s go together. Here’s a shovel. Let’s start digging. What are you what are you finding as you dig in that sand?” Just to support the coach, or the supervisee, in their exploration and helping them make meaning of what they’re finding. And bringing that back like you were saying, to the themes, bringing that back to their coaching practice, to themselves as a coach. What are they discovering about all of that?

KC: 11:09
Yeah and that’s hugely systemic, because the ripple effect there within the relationships, within the systems, they exist and that goes far and wide.

KS: 11:19
Yeah, and I would say I think that is present in all supervision to some degree, but it’s something that I treasure about the training that you and I received, and the come from of CRR Global’s Systems Inspired Supervision training is that it really is holding the relationship between us as the supervisor and our supervisee in the context of these nested systems, all the systems that we are a part of when we’re offering supervision. And it’s rather stunning to me. Sometimes I have this moment of almost awe when I tap into all the systems that are being impacted simultaneously. As I have a conversation, it seems like just a simple conversation between me and a supervisee, and then I’m pulling back and going, my God, there’s so many systems being touched and impacted by this conversation. It’s really incredible and humbling, actually, yeah,

KC: 12:31
I think it’s a quote, the idea of the universe inside of itself—I know Faith often speaks about the idea that within everyone there are multitudes. When we work in that way, we see that there’s so much we can connect to in every relationship, and that feels so powerful and almost existential in some ways,

KS: 12:58
Very much. So very much. I just got chills as you said that, because I’m thinking about what I truly love about supervision is that each time I’m sitting with someone, it feels like this great honor. They are bringing to me all the people that they support, and all the people who are part of their systems. And you just have this sense of—like you’re saying—gently holding in your hands these multitudes of of people and their people, and the incredible impact that allowing this person to consider and hold their own systems in their hands. The beautiful impact that ripples out.

KC: 13:54
I think sometimes we can feel that we’re just small fish In this this ocean. What can we do? Working in this way connects us to our power, our locus of control, our agency. And that’s exciting.

KS: 14:10
Absolutely, I feel that too. I hunger—and it sounds like we both do—for this sense that I am making an impact and make a difference, and I’m doing my part as a worldworker. I do feel that the supervision work has brought that next level, because you do feel the ripple effect. What an honor to work with coaches, because they support so many through their work. You just have this sense that it takes a village, and I do my part over here, but it’s beautiful to know that it carries on. I don’t know if you feel this way, but most of the time at the end of a supervision session, there’s something in the energy. It’s a really sacred energy that gets created in supervision. Maybe that is part of the journey, the beingness of it is that you’re sitting in a space with someone. There’s so much. I think that’s how we came to this topic, or this theme, is that it is so much less about what you’re doing with someone, and so much more about how you are being with them.

KC: 15:39
I think that has been and continues to be my biggest learning. As a supervisor, I do less and I “be” more, and that means turning off some of those mechanisms that have served me so well up until now. That’s hard for me to quiet that part down. How do you find that?

KS: 16:03
Oh my gosh, I relate so much. It’s sort of weird, the good news/bad news of being a supervisor. The bad news is you can’t rely as much on, oh I have a process for that. I have a method to take you through. The good news is you also get to just sit in the I don’t have to do anything here. I don’t have to fix you. I don’t have to bring the brilliance, the wisdom, the right answer, which I ultimately I get a little of in my coaching, sometimes I can get a little too attached to my own ideas of what might help them or what they might need. I’m sure I’m the only coach that ever gets that, wink, wink. But in supervision, I get to keep reminding myself nothing to do here, nothing to fix here, just being together, being curious. It’s delightful. That’s what brings me back to the playground, feeling it’s such a delightful open place to be.

KC: 17:14
Yeah, the power of not knowing. I loved having people like Amy Mindell on the curriculum and leaning into that approach, that wisdom that comes from “I don’t know.” That is a powerful stance. Also, the body’s intelligence. I am very much learning to listen. It’s still an evolving practice. I’m wondering how the body as a resource has been for you.

KS: 17:45
I love that you’re bringing that in, because I think it’s really essential. The whole idea of being is that it doesn’t really happen without embodiment. You can’t really (do it) only from your head. That was a real gift, to be in a program that was reminding us to invite in what’s happening for us inside ourselves, in our body and our heart and our emotions. I don’t know where along the coaching journey I picked this up, and maybe it was from my training, or maybe it’s just a thought that’s out there, that it shouldn’t be about you at all, it’s all about your client. You try to put aside whatever is coming up for you. In supervision, we say—well, that’s ridiculous. You can’t put it aside. And frankly, nor should you, because there could be some very useful information. We talk about what’s happening in the body as information, all those signals that are coming us can be useful. They can be informing if we’re holding curiosity, not just for our supervisee, but for ourselves around, “Wow, what is this session” or “What is this conversation bringing up in me?” And how might that be useful or informative to this person I’m sitting with, to the larger system that we’re both in. It helps me tap into my own system’s intelligence with them, for them, all of that, when I allow that information, that embodied piece, to be there/

KC: 19:33
it’s scary, isn’t it, when you’ve been defaulting more to the brain. Yet, I notice so much shows up when I lean into a certain signal or maybe an image comes into my mind, and I’ll say it. And then it will almost always resonate with my client. There’s something about that, a whole resource that most of us have been pushing down. That’s what excited me in this course so much – that there’s all of these other parts of me that I can start listening to. And not just in the supervision role, but as a mother, as a partner, as a friend. That’s exciting because there’s so much to learn. And suddenly – and we said this before starting this recording – we realized we’re at the start of the journey. That’s both humbling and exciting, because, wow, there’s just a ton to learn.

KS: 20:28
Yeah, absolutely. As you say that, it makes me think it’s the spaghetti thrown at the wall approach. It’s wonderful to tap into and invite all this. There’s so much more available when we allow the embodied piece, and even bring in the metaphors, all of the other signals and channels that are out there to inform the supervision. The place where it can get tricky is how attached we might get to that information. Do we allow it to come through us? Like you said, as you’re talking I keep seeing geese flying across the sky in my mind. I don’t know why that’s coming up. What is that? What does that bring up for you is very different than, “Oh, I’m seeing geese. This is like a migration for you. It’s a real difference of how we’re holding it. Again, that humility, the curiosity, the let’s just throw this spaghetti at the wall, and what do you make of it when it’s sticking up there? What sticks and what doesn’t? Bringing that lightness, that playfulness, that curiosity is just the sweet spot with all of that information that’s coming to us.

KC: 22:00
Yeah, I love that example, and the contrast between being the problem-solving partner that we often are as coach to being the one that encourages them to keep stepping back or to step to that whole.

KS: 22:20
The zoom out, as we call it in our training. I love that too. You know, I went through a training recently where the trainers were talking about how in our profession, we’re all insight junkies. We love to listen to our clients, and think we see what the trouble is. I see where they’re getting stuck or getting in their own way. This goes back to what you were saying about the freedom, the vulnerability and freedom of owning that I don’t really know what is for you, and the good news is I don’t have to know. I get to just be here and play with you and let you explore what’s coming up and make your own connections and insights and learnings from it.

KC: 23:10
There’s something that takes us into – I’m going to call it radical authenticity. I notice sometimes in the role of supervisor and supervisee, or even coach and coachee, there’s a level of pleasing, playing the role and doing it well, and yet, sometimes I notice signals. Like my client will say, Yeah, so I’m going to do this thing, and I’ll sense that they’re not energized by it. And when I reveal that, particularly when I’m in that supervision role, that’s where it gets interesting. Because they’re saying one thing, and yet their body is revealing something else. I think that’s where so much of the gold dust lives, and that’s certainly been for me when I’ve been in supervision, where so much has shown up. I’m saying this thing, but clearly my body is saying something else.

KS: 24:07
I love what you’re saying, and I have the chills again. There they are, just because you are speaking to that thing about supervision that is so beautiful, which is we really are just learning to attune ourselves to that being-ness of supervision. We say we’re the instrument and and the more you know when you play guitar, which I do very badly by the way. The important thing is that you tune your instrument and you take care of it, so that it can make those beautiful sounds. And if we are the instrument in supervision, our work is just to keep developing our own ability to be present, to pay attention, so that we can catch those moments like you just described with a supervisee. Where we hear one thing, we see something else, and we go, huh, I notice a difference between the words you’re saying and the energy around them. What’s going on there? They feel misaligned, or they’re not quite matching up, or I’m noticing this, I’m curious about that. It’s such a wonderful space to be in and and a quality in myself that I really want to keep learning to become in all the places in my life, just that more tuned in in the present, to the person or people in front of me. That kind of zoomed-out, soft-focus way where I can meet them and reveal to them what’s happening in there. Allow them to find clarity and alignment themselves, by simply being that mirror and reflecting back and being able to be present enough with someone to really do that for them.

KC: 26:23
A supervisor did that for me, and it was so revealing. I found myself smiling by the almost challenge, because it was so inviting as opposed to being given this reflection of myself, I was given this version that was was much more true. From there, I can choose. I know what is true might come up as a question, and maybe that’s also useful, that there’s just so many different versions of the truth. In supervision, we come at it with lots of different lenses, and so we get maybe a more holistic sense of truth for us as coach, as supervisor, as human being. And of course, it’s always going to be incomplete, but it gives us a bit more of the picture,

KS: 27:16
Exactly, piece by piece. It’s that whole thing of – my husband likes to do puzzles, I like my guitar playing. There’s a theme here. I am not a good puzzle-put-together-er, but there is something wild about building these puzzles one piece at a time. You hold up something and you don’t know exactly how it fits, you just have little – oh, there’s some blue or some pink in here, and where in my life have I seen that theme before? That’s some of the beauty of parallel process, which I also think is such a sacred part of supervision. This idea that what’s happening over here in you is also happening over there in your client, and over here in me as your supervisor. We understand these things because we’re all human and we’re each building ourselves one puzzle piece at a time. Each one we get helps create the bigger picture. It’s such a beautiful building. Bit by bit.

KC: 28:27
You are so great at finding the right analogy, and you made me think there about how it’s also about slowing down. I remember thinking going into supervision that oh, of course, I know that I have to prep myself as a resource for my clients. Yet I didn’t really understand what that meant. And through the process, I’ve started a journaling practice. I think what these reflective practices build in for me is a sense of the larger themes in my life. That’s also what supervision offers a space for. The larger themes, the larger cycles, so we can sort of see the revolutions of us as opposed to being just in the feeling or the moment of the month. It’s oh, we’ve been here before. Then we can start to sort of work with that pattern, maybe, as opposed to the problem itself.

KS: 29:34
I couldn’t agree more. That speaks to that zooming-out piece and the parallel process, and this idea that, yes, you start to make sense of things. As I talk about this, I realize this isn’t just a one-off. This is a way I show up in the world and it makes sense. And my client, and also this thing that keeps happening between me and them in our coaching. This is the the beautiful cocktail, where how I show up in the world meets how they show up in the world, and and all the good growth that comes from starting to connect those dots and see our patterns. Instead of falling into the content or the story of well, this is just a one off thing, it’s actually as a friend of mine says, how you do one thing is how you do everything. I try not to hyperbolize things. But how you do one thing might be how you do a lot of things is maybe a good way to say it. So getting to discover more about how you show up for your life improved my relationships. As a supervisor, I found that this program – I don’t know if you feel this way, but my goodness, it improved my coaching. It improved my personal relationships at another level than even just getting trained as a coach did. As a supervisor, I have to keep getting familiar with and recognize my own patterns, because they show up in how I provide supervision. How I am as a supervisor is how I am in other places in my life, as we’re saying. Recognizing – oh, I might be quick to do this or show up this way. I want to support my clients and look at my own patterns. That’s the parallel process of helping support them in looking at their patterns. It’s just this crazy house of mirrors.

KC: 31:53
For me, the program was in a full period of life for me. I thought that maybe the timing wasn’t right, and yet what the program offered me was space. I’ve never had that before with a training program. I feel that with a lot of training right now, there’s a lack of integration. We’re learning all these lovely things, and then we’re never actually applying them to our lives. The opposite was true with this program. It felt focused primarily on integration and how this lands in your life. That for me was why it had such a profound effect on me as as a parent and a partner and then supervisor and coach. I wasn’t expecting that. I was thinking, Oh, professional development, and yet suddenly it’s this personal development at another level. It’s something I keep coming back to. There are so many different lenses you can bring to a situation, and suddenly there’s a bit more space. That’s what I notice, is that we can always expand or contract, and supervision seems to just allow a little bit more expansion.

KS: 33:10
Yeah, I I love that you’re saying that because it’s true what you said about slowing down. It did feel like, Wow, there’s a lot to learn and do, quote/unquote, in this program. And yet when you dig into it, almost all the practices are, in one way or another, inviting you to just keep coming back to the moment. Yes, it is the expansion and the zooming out, but what you’re reminding me of is that it’s the freedom to choose. Sometimes it’s also the zooming in to something. It’s the choice to look at – is this about this bigger part of this person’s world, or is it really about how they are relating to this one client in this one way, and all the freedom in between for ourselves and for the client to choose? How do we want to look at this? What lens are we coming from now? Are we coming from the lens of what’s happening right now between myself and my supervisee. Am I holding on to and looking at where this shows up in my life and how I might offer that? Or am I looking at the relationship between the supervisee and their coaching client? Or is it the coaching client and the team that they’re working with that they’re bringing to their coaching session? My God, there’s so many choices and beautiful possibilities, and all the richness is right there. Just to learn how to keep coming back, slowing down, and following whatever thread feels like the right one to pull in that moment. It’s incredible. It really does bring you back once again, to that presence and being-ness. You have all the paths laid out in front of you, and it’s really fun to just be in that freedom and possibility place.

KC: 35:24
And to know you can access that range at any point. I think that stuck with me more than anything – the idea that I remember Sunčita, one of the course leaders, saying. That we could practice for a decade with one of the lenses, and we still wouldn’t exhaust that lens, and then we could switch to another lens. So much shows up in each of the lenses that’s so different from, say, my default. That just tells me that there’s just so much in each moment. Also to your friend’s point, because I also struggle with that quote around how you do one thing is how you do everything. Yet at the same time, there is a truth to that.

KS: 36:07
It’s just good to get to keep getting to know ourselves better. That is the bottom line, and it’s why there’s nothing more profound about this training, in all the things we learn to look for and pay attention to, this coming back to how am I showing up and what I am learning in my own vertical development about myself, and how I show up as a coach, as a supervisor, as a partner and as a parent. There it is again. There’s my patterns that I’m working on, loving and learning about and being at choice in as much as possible. That compassion for ourselves and and our own patterns is going to be a gift that we bring to the supervision that I believe our clients really feel. I think it is a signature, a hallmark quality of supervision. That’s why, once you experience coaching supervision, you’ll say to yourself, why have I not been doing this more or ever? To be in a space with someone who is allowing that compassion for how we are showing up with our coaching clients and in our lives is such a gift. We as supervisors can only offer it to the extent that we are working on gifting ourselves that same compassion for our patterns and areas for growth and learning.

KC: 37:52
I think that’s why so many of us are committed to supervision, and I get so much from my work with my supervisor. And there’s a grace to it. There’s no goal, there’s no – “Bad coach, you did this thing.” It’s a holding space from which then we can choose differently, and I want more people to experience this space.

KS: 38:24
I know. I want to spread it to the world. It’s so true in my experience, both in life as a parent, as a friend and partner and with my work, is that people don’t change when they are being criticized or shamed or supported. Even in the act of self-criticism about what they’ve been up to, they change and grow In an environment of invitation and compassion, and even playfulness around exploring, an ability to be self deprecating and find the humor. Oh, there I go again, doing what I do. It truly is such a honor, and it requires me to walk the talk of doing this in my own life. To be that space, that soft place for people to land, where they get to explore gently, lovingly, a little bit playfully, what is happening in their world, with their clients, all the rest. I do love that about supervision for everyone. I think everyone should have this.

KC: 39:51
Yeah, let’s spread this space holding capacity. I think it’s hugely powerful and massively needed in our world right now.

KS: 40:02
Space holder, I like that. That’s a good. That could be an alternative title for coach, supervisor, yeah. Sacred space holder.

KC: 40:12
Sacred space holder! Thank you so much, Katy for this gorgeous conversation today. It’s been an absolute joy to dance with you, and you have such a beautiful way of bringing metaphor into the conversation.

KS: 40:27
Well, thank you. It has been delightful for me. I feel like there’s something very generative, some good alchemy when the Katies get together and talk about these things. So thanks for the opportunity.

KC: 40:44
Yeah, take care. Katy. Katy with a Y signing out.

Thank you to Katy for that fascinating dialog around becoming a coach supervisor. I think the key word here is becoming. We’re all very much on the journey, and it was wonderful to meet Katy today where she’s at in that journey too.

For more information on CRR Global’s Systems Inspired Coaching Supervision Training program or Coaching Supervision groups, do check out CRRGlobal.com.

Before I sign off for the year, I want to say a huge thanks to you for continuing to tune in to the Relationship Matters podcast. I believe relationship matters, and I believe in a world where we put relationship first. And so thank you from the bottom of my heart for the relationship you have with this podcast. I want to wish you a wonderful holiday and a refreshing and revitalizing start to 2026.

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world, supported by a global network of faculty and partners. We connect, inspire and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. CRR Global’s unshakable belief is that relationship matters, from humanity to nature to the larger whole. For more information, please visit CRRGlobal.com.