Holding Space in Supervision with Sunčica Getter

KC:
Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe relationship matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman. In this bonus episode, I welcome back Sunčica Getter to the show to talk about the importance of supervision. Sunčica is Director of Continuous Development at CRR Global, and is passionate about bringing supervision to the world. We begin our conversation by unpicking that very term, supervision, exploring what it means to both be a supervisor and to be in supervision, and how that differs from the role of coach, and why supervision is so needed and necessary in our worlds. Before we dive into today’s conversation, let me briefly introduce you or reintroduce you to Sunčica Getter.

Sunčica, alongside being Director of Continuous Development at CRR Global, is a systemic coach, supervisor and consultant committed to supporting individuals and communities in learning and connection. Sunčica believes that the Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC™) model inspires and equips people to be conscious and intentional in their relationships by bringing the idea of choice and intention to relationships and showing the how we are changing the way we create the world together. For those of you who are new to Sunčica and her work, then I’d highly recommend checking out her previous episode on the podcast, ORSC and Mindfulness, and I’ll provide a link to that in the show notes.

KC
So without further ado, I hope you enjoy this episode on the importance of supervision and supervisory spaces. Enjoy.
Sunčica, so welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. I am delighted as always, to have you back on the show.

SG
It’s such a joy to sit with you, Katie, so really glad to be here. Thank you.

KC
And today we’re talking about supervision, and I realized that word it comes to life when I break it down into its part super vision. And yet, for many years, I’ve associated supervision with supervisor, and maybe a more sort of constricted way of being, and yet, supervision, Wow, that feels expansive. So talk to me more about this term supervision.

SG
It’s interesting how we build relationships with words, isn’t it? And you know, everything is a construct, and I think the kind of supervision space that we want to build in CRR Global is really an expensive, warm, welcoming, inclusive, generous and kind space. It is not the space of looking for mistakes in our practice, or fixing or criticizing, which can be associated with that word supervision, potentially, which is, I think, what you were speaking to, or some seriousness in it. And we do want rigor, of course, but what I’m trying to say is like we want to build a relationship with supervision and build a relationship with our inner supervisor in CRR Global as something that’s benevolent and exciting,

KC
Yeah, our inner supervisor. So is that your high dream for the program and supervision in the larger sense of what it can mean? That we all find our inner supervisor?

SG
That is absolutely Katie, thank you for spotting that, or the importance of those words “inner supervisor” – that is the key outcome of this program. How do we within ourselves create a holding space that then can relate to the outside holding spaces. We encourage people to have external supervisors, we encourage people to sit in peer supervision. We do want relationships. And perhaps the starting point is really building that inner supervisor, the inner observer, the space where we can hold our own experience at times where we are not sitting with somebody else.

KC 4:47
that’s been my dream, which is a lot of the time I have a supervisor, and yet that’s a once a month or maybe twice a month relationship, and so to have an inner supervisor who’s there with you for all. Those other moments that’s really helpful. And I wonder, how is this different from, say, an inner coach? I know that shows up quite a lot in coaching, that we’re developing that coach approach within ourselves. And so what’s the difference between the inner supervisor and the inner coach?

SG 5:18
I love your questions. They’re very nuanced, and I think the difference is nuanced. For sure, there’s going to be overlap. We bring some of our coaching skills into supervision, and we bring some of our supervision skills—probably even unaware of that, we haven’t been trained—into our coaching. So there’s some overlap. But perhaps if I look and I’m just a voice in this system, enough from for distinction, it would be the supervision, on one hand, is more sitting in the space of witnessing observation without the necessary move to action. Right away, we will apply what we learn into our practice, for sure. I mean, that’s our obligation and our ethics, but there is not an immediate drive to action. So even more, softening and understanding, how do we bring this metaview, the observation of us in action? So we say, or we use a quote, which is that when we are in supervision, we observe our practitioner, so we do our practice. We are coaches, we’re consultants, we are systems workers and we practice. And how do we build that possibility of observing ourselves in practice, first outside in supervision sessions, but then through building that inner supervisor, also during the sessions that we have one part of us that is a little bit removed in that method perspective holding us. And I think that probably is the key word that I really want to underline as well. So it’s not again, the observation for necessarily looking for mistakes, although we would always want to do things better, but it is the space of holding where we as practitioners can relax. So the supervision space maybe is different, or the inner supervisor is different from inner coach, in a sense that the inner supervisor holds our inner coach.

KC 7:21
So it’s a holon above. And I know sometimes we speak about the balcony view. This is really the cheap seats, the gallery, the gods looking down on that view. And I guess there’s always another holon we can go to to see an even bigger picture.

SG 7:40
Absolutely, you know, we present supervision in within CRR Global, we practice in concentric circles, starting from us as practitioners, then sitting in that space of supervision with our supervisor, then in a wider circle of our peers, where we observe things. So as you say, there are always multiple holons. And you know how beautiful to imagine that we are actually part of the world where we are held by multiple voices and communities, rather than scrutinized or criticized. There is always that metaview that can help us by ripple effect to see better and see more.

KC 8:24
Oh, there’s so much power in that approach, because as soon as we move away from right, wrong, good, bad, and hold things as data in that neutral way, now we can start to explore with that curiosity that can show up with that neutrality. Whereas when there’s those hard lines around this is the way, or that’s not the way, suddenly we’re closed down. We’re constricted. And maybe that’s some of the sense I have around supervisor. You think about, maybe that constriction of someone telling you what to do, whereas this is supervision. Oh, wow, I’m noticing this, this pattern. It’s not necessarily making it right or wrong, it’s now we have choice, and where did that come from and why? That feels very different, and that feels quite exciting too, because there’s so many data points, and we can go down all these different paths as people,

SG 9:20
Yes to all of that. In our Systems Inspired Supervision program, we use the analogy that’s used in Buddhism about mindfulness meditation, where it says we actually have to be the bird with two wings. One is the awareness observation, but not to slip into scrutiny, because we have another wing of the bird, which is loving-kindness. How do we hold without that deciding immediately what’s right or wrong, but obviously making a choice at the end? How do we hold with kindness, the awareness of what’s there in the present moment? Knowing that whatever is there is data, whatever is there is also a doorway to something else that needs to unfold, and if we hold it with kindness and curiosity, then we will get the information of what needs to happen next for the benefit of us as practitioners, our clients and then the wider systems.

KC 10:20
You’ve used the word a few times on this call, “holding,” and I’m sensing there’s a slower pace to supervision that’s different from coaching and then certainly our modern lives. I wonder if you can talk more to that, that idea of holding and holding space.

SG 10:38
Yes, gladly. That’s one of the most delicious parts of the supervision, that space of pause, pausing our actions, pausing our business as usual, pausing even our thoughts and our tendencies, our reactions, so in that space of pause we can create the possibility of something else happening and of a different choice in a supervision. Supervision has three functions—formative, normative and restorative—and all of them are equally important. The formative one is the space of vertical development of our growth as practitioners. That’s part of what happens in supervision. That is not a rigid growth, it’s expansive growth. It’s also connected to that space of restorative space, the space of holding. I think you’re speaking to where we can rest and pause and say, “Let me just take a moment to see who I am as a practitioner, and what am I doing and what I might want to do differently.” Then we have the normative aspect, which also holds the whole field of coaching. There are certain boundaries or ethical norms or rules that we want to adhere to for the safety of everybody involved. So it is the space, again, of holding on both an individual and a collective level.

KC 12:15
That feels to be the antithesis to the busy narrative that is showing up right now in our modern world, and it sometimes feels as if we’re going too fast. We’re not thinking about where we’re even going. And I sense that supervision is essential for all of us, particularly coaches. However, I think everyone could do with a bit of that space, holding that pause to check in. “Am I going in the direction I really want to be going in?” Because it almost feels like we’re pulled along down these paths, and then maybe five or 10 years have gone by, and we’re wondering, “How did I end up here?”

Speaker 3 12:53
Exactly that. A lot of our participants on the supervision training speak to that—of how much they appreciate and benefit from the space of pause, making sure that the choices they’re making professionally are the ones that honor and are in integrity with themselves and with the profession they’re doing, that honor their coaching clients, and that honor themselves. You know, we are the instruments. We speak about that often. We are instruments in our own work, and we have to take care of ourselves. Part of taking care of ourselves is really creating those little islands of rest and restoration and the be the ability to be held in other minds as well. So the supervisor’s mind, the peer minds when we are thinking together, so that we can potentially bring to the surface something that is not visible to us while we do our work, but that might not be good for either us or our clients. So what are those things that are under the surface of our thinking and the client’s thinking, that might be draining our energy and making us inefficient and maybe costing us our wellbeing as practitioners? How can we allow those to bubble to the surface, and then engage with them in a way that’s spacious and holding? That’s why we need those places of pause, exactly as you said, not to find ourselves on the wrong track way down the line.

KC 14:30
There’s a humbleness and a humility in supervision, which is important, because I think the more we develop ourselves, the more we think we know. That can be a red flag for not practicing what we preach. What surprised me the most when I went through the supervision training was how I knew a lot of the stuff, and yet I wasn’t doing it. It. know my body is the resource, and yet I wasn’t giving my body the space to get online for my sessions, whether that be as a supervisor or a coach. There’s something about us humans, we know these things, and yet we don’t do them. I wonder about that, that humility and that humbleness that comes from being in supervision that is essential for us to practice what we preach.

SG 15:27
The first thing that comes to mind is one, we need time and space for that. Engaging in supervision is simply putting the flag in the ground saying, “I want to take care of myself, my practice and my clients. I want to tend to that.” That is the space for doing that. And once we have that arranged and booked in and committed to, it’s easier than to implement this other stuff. Another thing that I think is really important—and we’ve seen that in our supervision training and also supervision groups—is creating communities of practice. Iit’s easier to do that in community. It becomes contagious. Actually paying attention or doing the same as the busyness is contagious. We see that in our lives outside can fall easily into that. Also pausing and breathing and connecting and reflecting can be contagious. It really brought me such joy to hear that one of the peer pods in our supervision training—we have pods or smaller groups of students who connect regularly to practice who graduated from the last year’s program—they just met for a couple of days to reflect on their practice themselves and who they are. They met in Spain in a little retreat that they created themselves. I think this is exactly what we are hoping for in CRR Global in this supervision training program, to create spaces and communities for coaches to be supported as practitioners and in delivering the best practice they can.

KC 17:08
That’s amazing, the power of relationship. There’s something about that stepping back and trusting in the wisdom of the system that feels quite refreshing and liberating as a coach. Suddenly you don’t have to hold it all. It can feel like that sometimes where we are, the waters we swim in, of course. As much as we see this stuff in our clients, we have that too. It almost allows us that restoration that we provide for our clients, and it feels essential.

SG 17:45
It truly does. We are in the profession of supporting others and walking alongside of them, creating the life and work they want. We give a lot, and we are committed. We give a lot of energy and we also take a lot on from what’s happening with our clients, and sometimes hold something that’s not ours. So there’s something about how do we get out of loneliness or just giving, and find those spaces where we can share and resource ourselves in the work we do.

KC 18:27
There’s something also about the fact that we’re also shifting patterns within the bigger systems when we’re doing this work, and that takes time. It’s a different pace from, say, the action-orientated approach of our coaching sessions. If we’re trying to shift this busy narrative in our global systems, I know we’re using that example today, if we’re trying to shift, that takes time. That system is going to take time to shift. And so that pause and that patience that comes from supervision, it does feel important, because now we’re not focused on task or action. It’s more process and pattern.

SG 19:05
That’s exactly right. I want to emphasize also that in all our supervision sessions and within the training, we really reflect on real-life cases. Of course, the coaches bring their work and they bring their clients and what’s happening with them. There is immediate benefit also thinking something through, and there’s this bigger or potentially wider benefit of how do we also expand ourselves as a vessel that can hold the work that we do and protect ourselves and resource ourselves and care for ourselves—and at the same time think things through together that are happening in the field, the same as you’re saying. If there’s a tendency for busyness outside, how do we hold it together as colleagues and peers and coaches and think it through together? How do we not just do it individually? So I think we in CRR Global are in the work and business of relationships. That’s what we believe in. And supervision is just yet another way of creating spaces where we feel connected rather than disconnected,

KC 20:14
And another way of super charging that ripple effect of relationship. I could be doing some work in my own bubble, and yet that’s going to be much harder than if I’m turning towards my colleagues with, say, a group supervision session where I can share and learn in relationship from others who are maybe doing the same. It does feel like it supercharges some of the intentions that we have as coaches and people,

SG 20:42
Absolutely. Another thing that I love and I’ve witnessed many a time—and we got it in testimonials—is that because you’re sitting with a group of people, because you’re sitting in community, the work also happens throughout the community. So some of the questions that you might have had might be answered through another voice, and some of the questions that you didn’t even know you had would also be answered through that voice. There’s that collective wisdom that comes to the surface and that collective kindness and connection that has such exponential effects on our practice that potentially could not be done on our own, or maybe would take a long time. So I really don’t want to be exclusive. There are many practices that can help, but I think the community effect of collective exploration in supervision is really, really powerful.

KC 21:35
I was sitting in a group supervision the other day, and the supervisor asked, “What’s your earliest experience of a group?” And that was fascinating, because we were sitting there as group supervisors in supervision, exploring our own sense of how we show up in a group and those patterns, and then how that shows up together, and how that blends with other people’s patterns of behavior. You suddenly see there’s so much there. There’s so much for us to explore, and that really excites me. Suddenly, it’s how can we build from the very best of our differences? And I know we’re moving towards group supervision here, and yet that feels so powerful as a practice and so needed right now in this world where we’re divided and divisive. How can we build from the very best of our differences?

SG 22:32
I think that is another really big outcome we’re hoping for in our supervision training program, to bringi that sense of including to a whole different level, where really we connect to the differences within ourselves, within our community, within the coaching practice, in a very nuanced way. And we often start our sessions, but definitely start our program with welcoming all parts of us into supervision and engaging with all of them, because they will hold some wisdom. And Katie, I’m sitting now noticing that there’s curiosity bubbling up to the surface of my awareness of how has this program benefited you as a practitioner, or changed you as a practitioner.

KC 23:26
In so many ways, and not just in my coaching practice! Initially my sense of it—I thought this will benefit that part of me, and yet it’s rippled into so many different parts of me as a parent, a partner, a friend, a coach, a supervisor. I think for me, it’s made me aware of my patterns of behavior, the patterns that I go to. Not making them right or wrong, just okay, there’s this pattern. And is that serving me? Suddenly I can start to unlock more awareness around me. I was working with a supervisor, and she asked me, “When does the coaching begin? Is it that first session, or is it when they get you a CV?” We started to unlock some of the narratives around me that are out there in the world before they even meet me. It’s fascinating in a way, because it brings into play so many different systemic levels. I’ve noticed in myself since the program, a softening in my practice, less control, a release. I thought I was doing that before, and yet I think there was release within a controlled framework. Now I’m allowing a lot more in from myself as a resource. And also then because of that within my clients.

SG 25:01
It’s exciting to hear that, yes, and that softening, one of the things we really look for in supervision is that softening into greater space, a space of expansion, and which then brings a different experience to us as practitioners, as well as to our clients.

KC 25:20
One thing I’m reminded of is the body is a resource. And I would say I know these things, and yet I wasn’t utilizing these things to their full potential, and I’m still not. I’m learning to lean into my my body as a resource in my coaching sessions, in my podcasts, with my family. Yet, my pattern is to go with my brain, which of course is part of the body first. Cccasionally I’ll get these flirts from my body’s intelligence, and I’ll bring those in too, and that is wild and wonderful. It feels like I’m just scratching the surface in terms of myself as a practitioner.

SG 26:02
Isn’t it exciting that there’s so much possibility for us to grow into. Perhaps that’s also the angle that Systems Inspired Supervision brings. Again, it’s not coming from the place of lack. It’s more like, “Oh, look what else is possible,” if that’s something we want to step into and, of course, all the time. And I really want to emphasize just holding our ethical responsibility to our clients. So we are constantly working on ourselves as practitioners, but in service of the work that we do.

KC 26:39
Yeah, yeah, I am curious. Same question to you—as an experienced supervisor and someone who’s been in lots of different supervisions, what’s been the benefit to you?

SG 26:52
Thank you for that question. It is still happening in a way. That’s the first thing that comes to mind. It became essential. I think you used that word earlier. And the benefit of being able to fill in the energy for my work and expand the space of thinking and soften the grip of doing it right and open other possibilities of how I can be, of experimenting all of that while at the same time feeling that I have the hand of our profession on my back. At the same time, I know that I’m adhering to professional standards, to ethical standards, It feels safe and daring at the same time. It feels held and experimental. And I love that combination. For me, supervision becomes that in a way—saying, what are all the places where we can go that we haven’t even scratched the surface of, that I can never discover on my own, because I believe in growing through relationships. How do I build that connection and allow the wider consciousness of all my colleagues in the coaching profession to hold me? And at the same time feel that I do no harm, or my intention is to do no harm. And more than that, to be of service to my clients.

KC 28:27
Wow, that’s beautiful. I had the image of you exploring the universe, and then I realized, maybe that’s the universe within.

SG 28:36
Maybe that’s exactly the universe within. On a practical level, if we bring it down to some of the traits and tendencies that we have—I have a controlling trait, you know. So that’s another thing. Supervision always helps me notice where that plays out and how I let go of that in a way that feels again like honoring of who I am and who my clients are. I might stick to a plan or the schedule. How do I, for example, change my engagement to time. Not in the sense that I will not honor the boundaries of time in my coaching, but as you said earlier, talking about the beginnings—that I will just spend more time thinking about that. If my client is late, or maybe I’m struggling to get into zoom, what is wider that might be happening around that. If we always bring the most important things toward the end of the session, what might be happening around that? It brings curiosity, rather than rigidity with that control. So one is controlling. Another one is that I have a tendency to be a good student, so maybe I wouldn’t experiment that much. Supervision allowed me to bring different approaches or methods, or as you said to use my body more and feel safe in that space. I can think it through with my supervisor or with my peers, and know that again, I’m within the boundaries of what’s ethical.

KC 30:08
Yeah, that feels very exciting and expansive. Thank you for sharing that. And I think, well, it just feels like there’s so much within us and the learning never stops. Supervision supports us in that journey. I agree with that. Thank you for this gorgeous conversation, Sunčita. As always, I’m leaving with lots of insights. So thank you for being you and for sharing so much of yourself today. Take care.

A huge thanks to Sunčita for championing systemic supervision in the world, and for emphasizing the importance of supervisory spaces where we pause, we slow down and we reflect. In a world of constant acceleration, nothing seems more important than slowing down in this way. So thank you for shining a light on this. I hope this conversation has been as invaluable to you as it has been to me, and it’s certainly one I’m going to be listening to it multiple times.

KC 31:17
Find more information on CRR Global’s coach supervision training and systems supervision spaces at CRRGlobal.com

For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world, supported by a global network of faculty and partners. We connect, inspire and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time.

CRR Global’s unshakable belief is that relationship matters, from humanity to nature to the larger whole.